Thu 28 Feb 2008
Normal Range in the Market Profile
Posted by ray under Written Plan
Today I’ll be covering the idea of Normal Range. Derrick raised this on February 27 and it is a topic not understood by many. Indeed, many authors on the Profile take the view that: ‘Day Type cannot predict in advance and is only of marginal use in real time” (Tom Alexander’s ‘Practical Trading Applications of Market Profile’).
It is my view that this one is one of the best of Pete Steidlmayer’s contributions to trading. Understanding, no later than the completion of the Initial Balance, whether a day profile is likely to be rotational or 1-timeframe, has a major impact on the strategy I shall employ for the day. I covered this in the “Power of the Market Profile”. Keys to being able to doing this are:
- The type of opening,
- It’s location relative to the previous day’s Value Area,
- The Normal Range of the Initial Balance
(1) and (2) are covered in Mind Over Markets (Chapter 4, section 1). Let’s turn to the “Normal Range”.
Peter classified the Day type into 6 types: two were 1-timeframe and 4 were rotational. The 4 rotational days depended on the idea of the ‘day’s normal range’ for classification. Now here’s the problem - we don’t know what the day’s range will be until after the end of the day. So of what use is it?
Most newbies to Market Profile trading fell at this point and concluded that Day Type was not useful to trading.
I saw Peter work with this idea and knew he made successful trades with it. It finally dawned on me that part of Peter’s unconscious knowledge was an idea of how large a Normal Day’s range was. Armed with that, I classified two types of statistics:
- The ATR and normal range of an instrument; and
- The average Initial Balances and average 30-minute ranges for the last two hours of trading
Armed with this information and knowing the Day types allows me to ‘guess’ if a day is likely to be rotational or 1-timeframe and provides another means of estimating the day’s range.
Let me give you an example.
FIGURE 1 Market Profile
I have divided yesterday’s Profile into 3 stages. The first section covers the “A” to ‘D” period.
The market gapped down and opened below the previous day’s value area. At the open we knew:
- If the market remained below value, then a 1-timeframe day was probable.
- If it returned to value, the probabilities favoured a rotational day.
- If the market failed to accept above 50% of the gap in the 1st hour, we could expect a trend day on breach of the 1st hour’s range.
- If the market accepted above the 50% or closed the gap, we could expect a rotational day.
At the end of the “C” period, we added to our information:
- Based on the above, the probability was for a rotational day.
- We had a test opening and a probable Normal Variation Day. The Initial Balance was about half of the ATR range.
- The test opening favoured a range extension to the upside and the Normal Variation Day suggested a double of the Initial Balance projecting a high of 1388.5 (roughly a double top with Feb 26).
So without looking at context by the end of the ‘D’ period, I had a possible price for the top and I knew that I’d be a buyer below Value or at least the lower end of value: 1374 to 1372.5 Context provided 1393 to 1388 as a target for the high for the day.
Whether you are a day trader or position trader seeking to optimise your entry, the Market Profile in general and the Type of Day (including type of open), provides immense value.



























February 28th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Ray
I am trying to absorb Market Profile on a chart basis as I learn best through osmosis.
I was too tired to stay up to trade last night as the night before was distressful for me.
This morning I checked Market Delta and ES/SP violated its first hour low after US market opened.
The evil twins of gold and oil have been enjoying the blue sky while others are below
sucking wind!
My only position is in GC and by turning in early with my stop in, I am happy to see it has gone my way without my anxious sitting in front of the platform.
Sometimes, learning to get away frees anxiety as well as showing better performance than to track the instrument half hourly.
This has been the case for me and I am fresh this morning to take the bull by the horns , if ES can show zone and trigger to go long or short after one hour of the opening bell today.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Ana-san
Personally, and speaking for myself tautologically, I find that the benefits from training your eyes to aquire and hold a fixed, glassy gaze of about two feet (sorry I was bought up imperial, long live the queen) to have wonderful effects upon all aspects of your meagre existance. So much so that it has become coloquially known in the trade as ‘tick watching’.
This can absorb many emotion packed hours with more adrenalin filled extremes than a Tom Cruise movie. Upon hearing any spousal question, for example, ‘would you like a cup of tea’, the words somehow get interpreted as a decision for which we have insufficient ram to process. Instead of a decision, we say ‘not now, I am busy trading’. Needless to say this perplexes the WUFO (wha fo yo trade) spouse, to whom you appear (obviously mistakenly) to be just staring at the screen motionless, transfixed, with a somewhat anxious look plastered upon your dial. Of course modern technology allows us to bring this dearly loved pastime into the social enviroment by way of pagers and PDA’s that have wireless connections. For maximium pleasure, in all situations, it is imperitive to never look a person in the eye during conversation over coffee. Maintain ‘the gaze’. Call it an immersion hobby. The trick is to make pretend decisions with yourself. If it goes two ticks lower I am out. Then, when it ticks two lower, rebounds one, renegotiate this with your self. Relish in the anxiety and adrenalin, and relax into the thought that you will go bed exhausted after a hard day ‘tick watching’, only to lie awake, because, by the wonder of modern technology, your PDA has a light, so you can maintain a healthy dose of paranoia during the night……..
You really owe it to yourself to try it at least once
Stuart
February 29th, 2008 at 5:14 am
ray: i do find a lot of value in market profile logic. however, i find that although most people give peter steidelmeyer credit for its development. he, at this point is using it in a somewhat different way than most. just to give an example in his new book he distances his views somewhat from the 80% rule. a rule which a lot of m/p teachers still propound. and he does so logically, since he is a dynamic student of markets. i also find that although he has a software which is used by institutions, and some individuals
most profile users use market delta. it seems to me that if one wanted to learn this method well. its creator would be the way to go. yet, it isn’t. it is as if he’d dropped off the face of the earth
do you have any opinion as to why this is?. i for one have been in contact with his new writings and website and find them excellent have you looked into them?
February 29th, 2008 at 5:43 am
Hi Leont
Since Pete moved to his CapFlow software, I have not kept pace with his innovations although I do keep up with his postings on the net. Most of his new stuff needs access to CapFlow
The problem for me is the CapFlow software is relatively expensive and does not come with the a user manual. I think the only ones who have a full appreciation of its capacity are Peter and Steve.
Given the above, I have been satisfied to adapt the principles I learnt from him to my trading.
You are right above the 80% Rule - it is after all only a behavioural pattern and will continue to work until it stops working.
For me the most useful development has been the incorporation of the Steidlmayer Distribution (Modern Market Profile) with the Traditional Profile ideas.
As to why Pete is not heard of as much as yesteryear, I have no idea.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:30 am
Stuart-San
You are living too long in Japan from what you advise: don’t look the person in the eye, which is considered good manners in the East and dubious in the West.
As for PDAs, I have pc/notebooks in every room in addition to a Blackberry (a PDA) and another HP, and and even in my sleep, wired to my notebook etc. So, I do not lack for trying…….
Well, I have taken some money off GC this morning, leaving half for a better run.
When it retraces lower, I may get in again.
How’s that for tick watching?
Speaking of watching, you could go to ChannelNewsAsia website and watch our mentor on short interview: looking half dazed in the eye, with a tie and jacket (very rare). Looks like he had a few winks from closing bell to the TV studio to be on air at 8.10 am Singtime. There would be repeat telecasts today and for a week, I believe.
Catch it if you can on the website.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Stuart,
I absolutely loved your take on the merits of “tick watching”!… and though we are American, my wife and I are also into drinking teas. I’m sure she’s asked me that very question before, which went unanswered or was responded with a “just a minute…” or a “can’t right now…”
“Tick watching” has also spilled over into my dreams. I sometimes find myself watching the monitors of some unknown market, awaiting for the volatility to settle down a bit so I can find an entry. And I wake up with “the gaze”…
Fortunately for me… these days are not what they once were as a newbie… or as a losing veteran!
Ana, I am going to try to catch that repeat telecast. Nice job in GC. I was on the verge of buying at $860 area back in January… missed that one!
February 29th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Dear Ray, YOU provided immense value here !
Just a question.
You wrote: “I’d be a buyer below Value or at least the lower end of value: 1374 to 1372.5″.
I suppose the session have been splitted at the end of the day, when it was clear from which period to make the micro balances to start (A-D; E-Q; R-a)
In real-time, why did you define that “D” was the right period to start looking for a long position in the range 1374 to 1372.5 ?
Best regards.
Michele
February 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Jeff-san
GC has retraced more than 10 points down from my morning’s exit ; so have re-entered to add to my position to average. Once it moves up about 20 points, I will exit half again, thereby locking in some profits.
As USD looks weak, you can still find a trigger to enter GC when market pulls back for a swing/position trade.
My philosophy …
February 29th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Hi Michelle
The splits were made in real-time. I split it at ‘E’ once the market went down below value and the took out the ‘D’ high on strong volume. That told me the rotational market that had formed in the A to D period had given way to the start of new IPM at E.
If I were merely trading the day timeframe, after ‘C’, I’d be a buyer any time the market dipped below the A to C value area and I’d exit at the calculated stop using the Normal Day’s range.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Thank you Ray, this is a great approach to the markets … I always found it easier to trade with the previous’ session reference points, but now I’ll have to learn taking trades like this.
Have a great day!
February 29th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
You are welcome Michelle. All the best on your learning journey.
February 29th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Ray,
What a fantastic blog series on market profile. You have taught me a few new ways of looking at the market. Thank you for your generous contribution.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Hi BH
You are welcome. I am happy you liked it.
March 9th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Ray,
Can you explain how you use the ATR and the The average Initial Balances and average 30-minute ranges for the last two hours of trading in your trading?
Thanks,
JTC
March 10th, 2008 at 12:13 am
Hi John
Thanks for the post. You have made a simple request but a detailed answer would take a couple of chapters of a book.
Here’s a short summary:
a) The ATR and average IB, the placement of the day’s open (relative to the previous day’s Value Area)and type of open, help answer the question: rotation or one-timeframe? (See Dalton Mind Over Markets)
b) The final three 30-minutes of the day applies only to the ES. The ES often has a ‘mini-day’ starting from the K period - it accelerates or changes a day’s dominant direction (up/down) and/or nature (rotational/one-timeframe).
The K provides strong clues and the first 15 minutes of M confirms. Dalton alludes to this but doesn’t go into detail. I have not seen any other practitioner mention this behavioural parameter.