Thu 9 Oct 2008
Volatility and Trading - What Is It All About?
Posted by ray under Psychology
A comment I made has resulted in quite a few queries. The statement was: “I seek to exit when the market has two consecutive days where the true range is greater than mean +3 x the standard deviation of the average true range”.
Most of the posts could not understand why I chose to find a spot to exit. After all, isn’t volatility supposed to be the life blood of traders? And, why didn’t I just reduce my position size?
Reduction of position size would be automatic - that would be taken care of by the position sizing algorithm.
So position sizing is not why I look to exit. The reasons lie in the tools I use to identify high probability trades. I use stats to identify:
- when it is a low risk buy/sell because the market is in a zone where the correction is likely to end.
- when it is high risk buy/sell because the higher timeframe is likely to correct. The higher timeframe line turn will cause my timeframe to at least attempt to change its trend.
- If I am entering intra-day as a responsive trader, the prices at which the high/low of the day may be said to be in place. To do this I need a reliable guide for the range of the day.
- If I am entering as a breakout trader, what volume size tells me it is too low for the breakout to be valid.
Etc etc.
All of the above rely on stats providing a picture of what is ‘normal’. But what happens when the abnormal is the norm? In that situation, all my prior data (are next to useless - we are not comparing apples with apples). On the other hand, the ‘new’ data do not form a large enough sample size to say that this is the new reality - so I abstain.
This approach works for me. It may not be to your liking or suit your personality. But I would rather be out than in a trade and say: ‘I am more uncertain than normal because I have no yardstick by which to measure the price action’.
I am attaching one chart to show you what I mean. The blue data in Figure 1 show the ES’s stats prior to the current increase in volatility; the red shows the current figures. Notice that currently the ES mean is greater than mean + 3 standard deviations of the old stats. In this environment my preference is to stay out.
FIGURE 1 S&P Stats



























October 9th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Hi Ray, When would you reconsider trading that particular instument again because wouldnt it take a larger than norm sample size to be absorbed into the mean again? Cheers Baz
October 10th, 2008 at 3:47 am
Hi Baz
I am not clear on what you mean.
If you mean:
a) when the market returns to ‘normal’, would I include the abnormal large range data sample, the answer is ‘no’. I’d treat them as outliers.
b) if after 30 periods, we treat the ‘large ranges’ as normal, then we’d ignore the smaller range data sample.
Hope that helps.
October 10th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Yes Ray I forgot about the outliers.The quick’n dirty way mentioned in book,correct? Would you also calculate a rate in percentage terms on the zones being accurate as per forecast?ie so you could look back and say that my zone predictions are X% probability of occurring where predicted. cheers baz
October 10th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Baz, as I say in NOT: the longer timeframes (12-M and up) and at times the 13w (depending on the change), I use % change. For the 18-d and lower, I use points.
October 10th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Hi Ray sorry to be a pest,could i look at it like this. In essence your stats are calculating and projecting a potential 3 area. With due diligence you would enter there,go thru a 3-1-3 exiting at the other 3 area.In cases of Extreme volatility this would distort calculations of the 3 entry profile area thereby increasing risk and management of the risk. Am i getting better or worse? Youve heard the saying,the only dumb question is the one you dont ask.Thanks for your patience,cheers Baz
October 10th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Hi Baz
Got there! (G)
Ask away. After all I can always not answer.
October 10th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Re; ask away. A man visits his doctor. He says “Doc ,everybody is ignoring me,what am i going to do?” The doctor replied “Next please.”
cheers baz